First of all, I know there are more non-meat diets out there than just vegetarianism and veganism, but those are the 2 common ones so yeah.
Ok, let’s get into it – who is actually being helped by vegans and vegetarians? The animals? Sure, if the failure to prevent other people from killing and eating them is “help”, then the animals are getting more help than anybody in this crazy illogical world.
“It’s natural”? Yeah, if you’re a cow (and who knows, there are a lot of them out there) or one of the few other vegetarian species. Otherwise, the killing and/or eating of other animals is pretty ubiquitous throughout the animal kingdom. As a species, evolution and the harsh conditions of the ancient savannah decided that it would be better for the humans to eat the iron-filled, vitamin-containing, fat-and-higher-energy-than-plants-contai… (the important factor) meat of decomposing carcasses (occasionally freshly slaughtered) as opposed to tough, chewy, not-high-energy-containing plants. It may also be one reason that we’re losing our wisdom teeth as a species (I’m not explaining what wisdom teeth were for).
“There are health benefits” really? Because even cocaine and heroin have health benefits, for God’s sake, but it doesn’t mean you should do them. According to the American Dietetic Association, a PROPERLY PLANNED vegetarian diet is “healthful, nutritionally adequate..” so nutritional adequacy for a vegetarian can only be achieved through proper planning? Sounds like a lot of unnecessary hassle for a meal that in the end tastes infinitely worse than meat.
In fact, I know that several health benefits have been linked to vegetarianism and veganism, such as less heart disease, Alzheimer’s, type 2 diabetes just to name a few. However, these diets are shockingly lacking in things like vitamin B12 (would you rather get this from a juicy steak or sterile, tasteless supplements?), bioavailable iron, long-chain fatty acids, cholesterol (which is extremely important – not that the pharmaceutical companies will tell you that) and saturated fat (high source of energy).
As for longevity? Well, the vegetarians are in luck, but would you believe it? The longevity of meat-eaters and vegans is the same! Which means that in the future the vegetarians will be attending the funerals of their meat-eating and vegan friends, who had an eating competition where the foods were synthetic hamburgers and synthetic tofu burgers and consequently choked to death.
Vegetarianism and veganism – who’s it actually helping?
Have at it.
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tl;dr all of it. From what I did read, you seem very antagonistic and cynical. Did you really spend all that time typing that up or did you copy/paste from another person’s question?
Why do you care about what people eat or don’t eat? It seems like all you’re doing is trying to pick a fight. That’s no way to go through life.
You say “…cocaine and heroin have health benefits….” yet you don’t see reasons why people choose plant based nutrition? Your post almost does not deserve the dignity of a response. I say almost. You have added yourself to the proof which supports theories that eating animals may contribute to aggression in human behavior.
Going veg is good for people, animals and the earth. It’s as simple as that.
I can agree with most of your points. I will even extend a couple.
As you say, a V-diet if properly planned CAN be healthful and nutritionally adequate. And that health risks can be associated with meat. The problem with those lines is that one is saying if its properly managed then its good, and if its overdone the other is bad. Wouldnt it be better to consider them side by side if BOTH were properly planned?
As far as helping the animals, Id question that. Im all for animals being raised in good conditions and processed in the most merciful means in reason. But how does not eating them benefit animals? If we were talking about deer or pheasants in the wild then maybe. But its not as if ranchers will suddenly become basket weavers for a living but continue to raise and feed their cattle, or chickens, or pigs. Its not as if they would be released to destroy the wilderness and harm the real natural animals. Most people would not recognize our livestock in its original natural forms. What we eat is generally MANs animals. They have been created, bred, raised, and killed for the purpose of feeding mankind. So if people stopped eating meat then 99.999% of the livestock would just be killed off and not bred anymore. What animal did that help? (altho a case could be made for fish which are still mostly taken from the wild. We need more fish farms)
Oh Im sorry. To answer your question… umm.. I guess the answer is “the farmers”?
Why would you even bother to ask if you don’t like it? Do your research an you might learn all the benefits. It benefits the earth because it’s not using factory farms. It benefits the animals because It’s not supporting the killing of them. On a vegetarian diet, you save 100 lives of animals a year. And it benefits yourself because your not putting animals in your body that have been fed chemicals and hormones. Next time, don’t even bother asking such a question.
I really just hate meat. I dont like the taste of red meat at all. Chicken tastes good, but the only times i have eaten it is when it is direct from a freerange local farm. (which still is not 100% hormone free…)Its a mind game for me, i watched a few documentartys and it was just so disgusting…
I try not to fill my body with boca, morning star & meat substitutes. Your right, it seems crazy to fill your body with fake food. kinda like mcdonalds, and any other fast food crap out there. there is good and bad to every diet.
get over it. eat what you want & leave people alone. veg or non veg, you still poop.
it helps environment. do you know how much pollution does factory farming? apparently you don’t.
and, yes, it helps animals. nature is cruel, blah, blah, blah, we know that. animals kill each other etc. when was the last time you chased and killed an animal with your bare hands or teeth? or do you simply support raising millions of them in huge factories, feeding with chemicals, treating like **** & justifying this nonsense by saying it’s ”all natural”.
yes, it’s also healthy. do you think you benefit much from eating meat of animals, that in vast majority of cases have had mental or physical diseases?
Firstly I the MAIN reason I am vegetarian is NOT to help animals. Helping animals comes from more conservating work like helping endangered animals, adopting abandoned pets or helping animals that have gone back into the wild. But think about it, what is meat helping? Meat Industries? Big Propaganda Companies?
I am vegetarian because I am completely against factory farming (even “organic”, free range meat is still factory farmed). I don’t want to support an industry which is shorting animal life spans, making them trapped in cages (yes free range is well) and meat these days are full of hormones.
Animals like lions, tigers HUNT for prey in the wild. The prey can run, be around with it’s family and live it’s life. But factory farming is not like that. Animals don’t have a life. They are seporated from their mothers on the first day. Chickens can live 5 years. Now they only live a year (due to demand in meat) and are fattened. There are 3x as many cows as humans because we are over populating them.
The taste of meat is a personal opinion. Some people are vegetarian because they don’t like the taste of meat. If you think about it, the only reason meat tastes nice is because of flavouring whilst a tomato is full of flavour (whether you like it or not). I mean, plain chicken tastes DISGUSTING.
B12 is found in animal products (milk and cheese) so vegetarians do not have a problem obtaining that. If vegan, B12 can also be found in fortified cereals, soy milk and sometimes orange juice. Besides, B12 is only required in small amounts so it is not necessary to have meat. Too much B12 does not have a problem either as it is not toxic.
Firstly the vegetarian does contain everything a meat diet does without the need of supplements (due to animal products), so I am just going to discuss the vegan diet.
Iron is in vegan diets (seeds, leafy green vegetables, soy products) and long-chain fatty acids are found in flax seed. If your intake of dietary cholesterol is low. You’re circulating cholesterol is likely to be low as well, you your the “bad” cholesterol, those that attach to LDL’s, will probably be low as well. So vegans are at an advantage. Satuated fat can be obtained by coconut oil, palm oil and vegetable oil.
Besides, too much fatty acids, cholesterol and satuated fat is bad for you (which are the main factors in meat) which is why a balanced vegetarian/ vegan diet can good for you.
You need to balanced in meat diets AS WELL as vegetarian diets. Meat eaters should also aim for a vegetable based diet because remember, we are NOT carnivores but omnivores. Unbalanced meat eaters have a very risk of cancer, heat disease, type 2 diabetes etc.
You can’t really say a vegetarian diet is so much hassle when you have never tried it! It really isn’t, unless you live in a country that underestimate vegetarians. Any healthy diet is hassle, whether it is vegetarian or not. A vegan diet is quite tricky but I have never tried it so it is not my place to say it.
The life span of a vegetarian, vegan and meat eater depends. You could die very quickly as a vegetarian because you had a very bad diet. You could live very long as a meat eater if you had a good diet. Some vegans live short lifes because some of them don’t have balanced diets because it is quite a difficult diet. But there are vegans that live longer than vegetarians. Like Donald Watson, the person who created the word “vegan” lived 95 years!
Overall as a vegetarian, what I am trying to say is both meat diets and vegetable have advantages and disadvantages. It’s your choice to choose what you think is the right diet and make sure you know about it before you crtisize other diets.
PS: I noticed some people mentioned PETA. I do not support PETA. True vegetarians and vegans don’t.
Your arguments are based on the presumption that people either eat meat only or vegetables only.
Ancient humans used to eat approximately 90% plant matter, which you call tough and chewy. That’s odd because I would say meat is tough and chewy.
You say it’s too much trouble to plan a vegetarian diet as compared to a meat diet. Is that because it’s easier to go to the supermarket, select a cryovac-ed styrofoam tray of hormone pumped meat, take it home and blast it on a fry pan? Don’t you eat ANY vegies?
You say such a vegetarian diet (as difficult as it is to plan), “sounds like a lot of unnecessary hassle for a meal that in the end tastes infinitely worse than meat”. Well, I don’t think anything could taste worse than meat. Not brussels sprouts, not boiled cabbage, probably not even sh*t. I have always been totally repulsed by the taste of meat.
I’ve learned from over 30 years as a vego that it is pointless to have this discussion with someone whose mind is so obviously against the concept of not eating meat. So don’t you worry yourself about it. You eat what you want to and I’ll do the same. Peace to you.
“Also, for the people from the “it’s cruel to animals” camp – get over it. Life is cruel.”
Um, no. Sorry. If someone were being cruel to you, you wouldn’t feel that way. Ever been mad at someone for treating you like sh*t? There are times when “Oh well, that’s life” doesn’t cut it as an excuse for behavior.
Also, your “meat-FUELED” brain sucks at grammar and spelling.
You’ve obviously never had real vegetarian food, either. It’s delicious.
So I choose the delicious food, the disease prevention, and lowering the demand for animals to be slaughtered. It does lower the demand, which in turn lowers the supply. Just because animals are still slaughtered doesn’t mean we aren’t causing less to be born and raised into a world of suffering. I doubt you want to believe that, but that’s not really my problem.
If you’re not looking for a fight, why is your question so rude and antagonistic?
EDIT: Well, your grammar still bites, as does your logic. And you didn’t even address my main point, but no problem – I expected that. You have a stellar day now.
Doesn’t help the animals. Pigs, cows, sheep, chicken and whatever else you can think of. These animals don’t fit into our society very well. I think some of them would be extinct if we didn’t eat them.
The animals: sorry, it just so happens I DO care. What’s it to you? Get over it, I’m not twisting your arm to do the same.
Whether or not it’s natural: sorry, the entire question is irrelevant. We have this thing called a mind which enables us to make choices instead of being slaves to our nature. ‘Natural’ would be to knock the pretty 13 year old unconscious to drag her to your cave and have sex with her. Lucky thing we got over the whole ‘it’s natural’ as the defining factor in our choices.
Health benefits? Yes, a vegetarian diet can be healthy. A whole lot healthier than doing cocaine or heroine, as I am sure you knew before you came up with that ridiculous comparison. Actually health is the least of my reasons for being a vegetarian, but it is a nice bonus.
Proper planning? Wake up, ANY diet requires proper planning to be healthy. You are just so used to your diet that you don’t even notice the planning part (remember, the basic food groups and such?) any more. It’s the same for me. I don’t take any more time planning meals now than I did before becoming a vegetarian.
I am a lacto-ovo vegetarian. My diet does not lack B12. I don’t need any supplements. But for the sake of argument, let’s say I do. Would I rather eat a juicy steak than a tasteless supplement? Sure. Steaks are yummy. But that is besides the point. I have chosen not to eat that steak, a very personal decision that for some reason seems to offend you. Which is not MY problem.
Of course the part you conveniently forgot is environmental pressure of meat production. Being a vegetarian and driving a Hummer makes more difference there than regularly eating meat and driving a Prius when it comes to CO2 emission. Producing meat as part of our nutrition intake is also shockingly inefficient. Do you have any idea how much soy is needed to produce that juicy steak? Better to eat the soy and not need nearly as much of it.
Those are important reasons for me to be a vegetarian. As well as the animal cruelty I am not about to ‘get over’ just because YOU can’t get over the idea that someone else might take that into consideration.
I’m not sure where veg*ns get the idea that we’re designed to eat 90% plant matter. Looking back on the evolution from Australopithecines to the Homo genus, we’ve changed quite a bit. From living in the trees like chimps, eating insects, fruits and tasty greens, to trekking across the plant-poor savannah of Africa munching on tubers and stealing the fresh kills of higher predators, then finally making it to Europe and Asia where game was plentiful and plants were seasonal. We didn’t go straight from the A. afarensis to H. sapiens. Many branches of early man died off due to their inability to adapt to the surrounding environment. The 100% vegetarian genuses (such as Paranthropus) were the ones who weren’t able to pass on their genetic material.
3.6 MYA: A. afarensis, A. africanus, A. robustus, etc. All vegetarian.
2.5 MYA: H. ergaster, H. rudolfensis, H. habilis. Rudimentary use of tools, tapeworms found in H. ergaster indicating consumption of meat.
1.8 MYA: H. erectus, H. georgicus, H. heidelbergensis, H. pekinensis. More advanced tool making, wooden projectile spears found at the H. heidelbergensis fossil sites
1.2 MYA: H. antecessor (along with H. heidelbergensis, both common genetic ancestors of H. sapiens and H. neaderthalensis)
600,000 YA: H. neaderthalensis
200,000 YA: H. sapiens
To assert that we retain the exact same biological make-up as our vegetarian evolutionary ancestors from over 3 million years ago is beyond ridiculous. The furthest back we could go would be H. antecessor or heidelbergensis, both of which have been proven to have used stone tools for scavenging meat. Hundreds of animal bones have been found at the sites where these two proto-humans were discovered. Coincidence?
The steady downward progression of molar size and jaw muscle is also a key indicator of our reliance on animal proteins. Meat is easier to chew, unlike tough rhizomes and tubers. We also need to eat less of it than we would plant matter, due to its higher caloric density.
Note to veg*ns: I’m not talking about canines as an indicator of meat-eating, as those are often used only for display (eg gorillas and baboons).
It is only helping PETA, ALF and such extremist groups who have spread many lies about the subject. Someone has the audacity to claim PETA is a non-profit group, when it collected $30,000,000 from gullible people in 2007. My first boyfriend introduced me to bodybuilding and powerlifting, and I have been studying exercise and nutrition ever since. It has always been the accepted knowledge of zoologists and nutritionists that humans are omnivores, and their eating meat was a big factor in allowing them to grow bigger brains than their herbivorous cousins, the apes. If anyone has radical new ideas, the burden of proof is upon him. I do not accept propagandafrom PETA, ALF and such groups as genuine evidence. They are terrorists and con men. It is sad that a group of them would gather and plot to take over some categories in this forum. Defamation is an acceptable practice to PETA, I have seen. I recently received some barbaric messages from a troll who has had many accounts. The latest is m.t.zimmerman. He or she sent me messages using two different names. Included were threats for the purpose of extortion.Such fanatics only make things ever worse for themselves. I have copied them for submission to the FBI and local policemen. Many times, these people using many accounts have grossly defamed me. Conspiracy is a felony I hear, and committing crimes on the internet is a federal offense. Such people dare to call themselves “Ethical”. What a farce!
Who cares if vegetarianism helps anybody? Not all of us believe that we’re saving animals or saving the world by choosing not to eat meat. It’s a personal choice.
If you put an effort into finding healthy alternatives and not skipping out on important parts of your diet, you can certainly be healthy as a vegetarian. Any other diet can be deficient in certain areas due to poor planning, vegetarian or not.
And your argument that “meat tastes infinitely better” is completely invalid because it’s biased to YOUR tastes. Not everyone loves steak. Not everyone likes the texture of meat. Personally I would rather swallow a tasteless pill instead of eating something that is dead, bloody, and fatty.
I won’t get into the “which diet is healthier” debate, because if you eat a balanced diet, incorporating meat isn’t always a bad thing. My diet helps me and my husband on various levels. First of all, before he met me, his diet consisted of mainly junk food and very non-lean meats (hamburgers/battered chicken breast, etc.). Now we eat a balanced, plant-based diet and his cholesterol has gone down and he’s in great shape. Also, a pound of tofu costs about $3/lb, and organic healthy meats are about $10/lb. beans and rice are a lot cheaper sources of protein, so my diet helps us out financially.
Another way that we feel we are helping is that we buy all of our produce locally, so we are helping our community by keeping small family farms in business. We also help a few of the residents that live in the residential community my husband is a chef for- they are vegetarians, and before he came along the only veg options they had were refined sugars and processed foods. We feel that we are helping keep more grains in supply- for every pound of cattle fed grains, 16 pounds of grain are used to produced them. and it takes about 2-3 lbs of corn per one pound of cattle slaughtered. So for every pound of beef I don’t eat, we get a surplus of about 15 lbs grain, or 2 lbs corn that can be used to directly feed people. I also think it’s cruel the way chickens are caged and their beaks are snipped off, so I choose not to buy the product of that cruelty- so it helps me sleep better at night.
My diet is a personal choice, and I also understand that some people are educated in their choice to eat meat. I don’t try to shove my opinions down the throats of others.
So pretty much, my vegetarianism helps me feel better physically and mentally than I would if I ate meat. (And the texture makes me gag.)
There is not a single nutrient that meat has that I can’t get from a plant based diet- not one. And as far as what our ancestors ate- I am not a hunter gatherer- I spend most of my day at the office and am only working out for about a half hour a day. I do not need what they needed. Also, I want to avoid all that gout-producing uric acid.
I mostly agree with you, however I wanted to mention one thing: Adults don’t actually NEED cholesterol in their diet. They can make what they need without any trouble. It’s children that require it for their brain development. Children under about 10 or so can NOT make all the cholesterol they need, and require animal products, whether it comes from a cow or a human (breast milk), after that it’s kind of a gray area. And after around 25, when your brain is fully developed physically (as in it’s not going to get any bigger), all the cholesterol you need can be manufactured in your body from other fats, and isn’t absolutely necessary in your diet.
Other than that, your points are mostly valid, even if some aren’t based on fact, although I can’t really agree with the way you worded some things. It makes me just as mad when omnivorous people attack vegetarians and vegans as when vegetarians and vegans attack omnivorous people. Eat and let eat, I say.
it helps no one…..um. do u know that when u are a vegetarian it doesn’t help u lose weight…u just eat more carbs and end up getting fatter. and vegans are freaking gross………so really um it doesn’t help anybody…..sorry but its the truth :/
beyond MANY other things, it’s helping the environment
source: http://www.fourgreensteps.com/community/…
I’m not going to answer this with a wall o’ text. Every point you made can be made aboutmeattoo. It’s natural, if you’re a lion. There are not just a “few” vegetarian species. It’s humanity’s fault B12 is hard to get because now plants are massively farmed using pesticides and other chemicals so we have to wash them. Bacteria in soil give B12. Meat is actually the less-efficient food source because it takes something like 9 pounds (not sure of exact number) of plants to create 1 pound of meat. Plus animals are spared from death and suffering. Who’s it helping? The environment, the animals, and the people. Humans can be herbivores naturally so why not choose to be one and not have to end the lives of so many animals? Let’s agree to disagree.
Am I the only that wonders…
How are vegetarians and vegans hurting you? I’m fairly sure people have the right to eat, or not to eat, whatever they want.
You are correct- vegetarianism does not help or “save” animals.
I disagree with your implication that it doesn’t help the vegetarians themselves, though. Based on their comments here on yahoo answers, it has done wonders for their self-image. Most of them appear to have very high opinions of themselves, as compared to their opinions of non-vegetarians.
you, if you actually eat vegetables, beans, nuts, grains, fruits, and milk, you will age better and its easier to take a crap
The only thing that vegetarianism and veganism “helps” is the hubris and inflated egos of some of the more pompous and holier than thou vegans and vegetarians!
With that logic I’d ask why are you even bothering to live out your sad pathetic life
Im all for animals being raised in good conditions and processed in the most merciful means in reason. But how does not eating them benefit animals? If we were talking about deer or pheasants in the wild then maybe. But its not as if ranchers will suddenly become basket weavers for a living but continue to raise and feed their cattle, or chickens, or pigs. Its not as if they would be released to destroy the wilderness and harm the real natural animals. Most people would not recognize our livestock in its original natural forms. What we eat is generally MANs animals.
I’m a true carnivor at heart but I can understand why vegetarians would be the way they are. Getting the best quality meat is very difficult if you’re not rich or just earning good money.
The environment. Ruminants produce lots of methane as well as many other greenhouse gases. Livestock farms are also major water polluters.
Interesting question, you get a star.
“Otherwise, the killing and/or eating of other animals is pretty ubiquitous throughout the animal kingdom.”
Just because we can doesn’t make it healthful. I can eat human meat to survive but it’s hardly a healthful thing to do and can cause neurological problems. If you want to argue the natural argument, you should get off the computer and also turn off any air conditioning you have, stop drinking filtered water and forego medical treatment since all of those things are also not found in nature.
“Sounds like a lot of unnecessary hassle for a meal that in the end tastes infinitely worse than meat.”
I’ve only had compliments from my vegan food, but if you need animal grease to make your food taste good then I would like to recommend herbs, spices and aromatic root vegetables to your kitchen. In other words, it’s not the plant’s fault…it’s chef error!
As for unnecessary hassle, no, not at all. There are plenty of healthy vegans, even vegan and vegetarian athletes (including those playing professional American football) and the diet isn’t something that requires a ton of planning. It’s the same as being an omnivore: eat a well-rounded diet rich with vegetables, fruits, nuts, grains and legumes…that’s it. Even if you eat meat you should still be doing that. My blood work is always awesome, my HDL is above excellent and LDL is below excellent (below since LDL is the one you want low). In other words, my “just throw plenty of food together, season to taste and enjoy” easy assemblage of food has me healthier than the rest of the patients my doctor sees. It’s not hard…and it’s cheap!
“would you rather get this from a juicy steak”
No, once you give up steak it smells like the inside of a really nasty gym bag. Also, B12 is available on plants because of fertilizer’s B12 content.
“bioavailable iron”
I actually wrote a whole thing on iron to explain how easy it is to find in plant foods and how it’s actually more readily available in them: http://dailyveganeats.tumblr.com/post/26… Spoiler Warning – People talk about combining foods to make non-heme iron more bioavailable, but non-heme iron doesn’t just float around on its own…it’s in foods that already have things like vitamin C that make it bioavailable.
“long-chain fatty acids”
Nuts and seeds, my friend. Plus, all the studies I’ve ever read talking about the benefits of essential fatty acids are done using ALA, not DHA or EPA…but they still recommend DHA or EPA for some reason even though their ALA experiments showed what results led them to believe essential fatty acids are healthful.
“cholesterol”
I make my own…and so do you
“saturated fat”
Coconuts and coconut oil have saturated fat.
“who had an eating competition where the foods were synthetic hamburgers and synthetic tofu burgers and consequently choked to death.”
This was hilarious
“Vegetarianism and veganism – who’s it actually helping?”
Me, but I saw a marked improvement in my quality of life. I can’t speak for others, though.
First, it helps the vegan.
We are in better shape physically.
Smarter mentally, and have less health problems
(I can tell by your comments you don’t have a 6-pack. Most vegans do.)
It helps the environment. The meat and dairy industry are the biggest polluters on the planet.
70% of deforestation in the Amazon is from clearing out space for grazing land.
Meat eaters, who does it help?
It helps vegans, because standing next to you we look even smarter, even stronger, even healthier, and your guts make our 6-packs look incredible.
Keep up that meat eating, I appreciate the help.
If you think meat is more efficient, take your shirt off and look in the mirror…